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Community Rating: 4.022 / 5  (68 votes)
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You could use it freely without worrying about ditching cards alongside Bottled Cloister.
Posted By: Kirbster (8/23/2010 8:07:18 PM)


You can have a compleatly empty hand and still pay the cost. You are discarding a hand of 0. It is still your hand, and thus can still be discarded. Or you can cut off your hand and throw it in the trash, that would be discarding it.
Posted By: bijart_dauth (3/10/2011 1:49:46 PM)


Take for example Krovikan Sorcerer. You cannot activate it's ability if you cannot discard a card, but that is different from discarding your hand. Your hand can contain any number of cards starting from 0. So from discarding standpoint, if you discard your hand you must discard whatever there is, which includes the 0 card hand.
Posted By: tavaritz (8/7/2011 12:52:47 PM)


Ok, who rated doolydooly comment 5 stars and Delnai 0.5?

Deinai is correct "Have to discard a card? Discard nothing." is wrong. If it said 2,Tap, Discard a card: effect then you could not activate the effect with no cards in your hand because "Discard a card" is before the colon and is a required cost.

The reason Null Brooch still works as printed is because a hand of 0 is still a hand. The same would be true for exiling an empty library or graveyard. Even with no cards in them those spaces still exist because they are zones, not physical entities like cards, spells permanents etc...
Posted By: Moxxy (12/14/2012 9:12:24 PM)


Man how good would this be in a Hellbent deck!
Posted By: niallcmurray86 (8/8/2010 12:41:15 AM)


Funny thing since you don't need to have actual cards in hand for it to work...^^
Posted By: Schlappi (7/20/2009 5:39:44 AM)


I'm pretty sure a hand of 0 cards still counts as a hand, or else your hand would cease to exist when you have no cards in it. Discarding your hand is part of the cost, but that cost can still be payed if you have no cards in hand, you simply discard your hand of no cards. It seems a little weird, but I'm pretty sure this is how the ability works.
Posted By: facemcmuffin (6/16/2010 7:33:24 PM)


If your hand is empty, it still counts as a hand and can be discarded to pay for the cost. Therefore, you can use this ability freely if you have no cards in hand. Now, if Null Brooch stated that you have to discard a certain number of cards, it would be a different story (for example, this is the case with Avatar of Discord)

Also, if an empty hand did not count as "hand", a player with no cards in hand would be an illegal target for Mind Rot.
Posted By: Falgorn (7/22/2010 6:41:16 AM)


Discarding a hand of 0 is perfectly valid and probably the best use of this card, the fact that this is causing so much confusion boggles my mind.

Spells/abilities that involve your hand don't just fizzle if you have 0 cards, they interact with your hand and thus the 0 cards that are there.

Have to discard a card? Discard nothing.
Have to reveal your hand? Reveal nothing.
Have to discard your hand? Discard nothing.
Something checking hand size? It's a hand size of 0.

If a hand size of 0 ceased to be a hand then the whole Hellbent mechanic wouldn't work at all.

It's really as simple as that.
Posted By: doolydooly (8/9/2010 8:21:01 PM)


Look Mom no hands!
Posted By: Pontiac (3/26/2011 9:06:15 AM)


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